Steve Jobs’ Email Debate With Gawker Blogger
Eric Calouro | May 15, 2010 | Comments 24
By now, you’ll probably acknowledge the fact that Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ replies to folks who email him at his public email address are short, sweet, and generally informative. Today — not the case.
Upon seeing an advertisement which claimed Apple’s iPad to be “a revolution,” Gawker blogger Ryan Tate sent a somewhat snarky message to the man, which we have appended below:
Tate:
- If Dylan was 20 today, how would he feel about your company?
- Would he think the iPad had the faintest thing to do with “revolution?”
- Revolutions are about freedom.
Three hours later, at approximately 1AM, Steve Jobs sent a surprising forty-one word passionate reply:
Jobs:
- Yep, freedom from programs that steal your private data. Freedom from programs that trash your battery. Freedom from porn. Yep, freedom. The times they are a changin’, and some traditional PC folks feel like their world is slipping away. It is.
It doesn’t end there, no sir. Tate fires back:
Tate:
- Was it a “technical issue” when Microsoft was trying to make everyone write to the Win32 API? Were you happy when Adobe went along with that?
- You have the chance to set the tone for a new platform. For the new phone and tablet platform. The platform of the future! I am disappointed to see it’s the same old revenge power bullshit.
- …
- PS And yes I may sound bitter. Because I don’t think it’s a technical issue at all — it’s you imposing your morality; about porn, about ‘trade secrets’, about technical purity in the most bizarre sense. Apple itself has used translation layers and intermediate APIs. Objective C and iTunes for Windows are testament to this. Anyone who has spent any time coding knows the power and importance of intermediate APIs.
- And I don’t like Apple’s pet police force literally kicking in my co-workers’ doors. But I suppose the courts will have the last say on that, I can’t say I’m worried.
And if you expected Jobs to remain silent after that, you’re sorely mistaken:
Jobs:
- You are so misinformed. No one kicked in any doors. You’re believing a lot of erroneous blogger reports.
- Microsoft had (has) every right to enforce whatever rules for their platform they want. If people don’t like it, they can write for another platform, which some did. Or they can buy another platform, which some did.
- As for us, we’re just doing what we can to try and make (and preserve) the user experience we envision. You can disagree with us, but our motives are pure.
- By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?
Certainly very interesting, but we’d like to see this in person better. Here’s the full email correspondence:
Whose side are you on in this case?
[ via TechCrunch > Valleywag ]
Filed Under: Technology
“Weak content in an approved wrapper” vs. Flash is a straw man argument, as Flash is neither necessary nor a guarantor for interactivity. (C’mon, admit it, you’ve seen static graphics on websites that were SWFs, rather than JPGs or PNGs.)
Mr. Tate’s argument is essentially that companies who only have Flash developers in-house will be unable to create compelling iPad apps without training their staff or hiring new talent. Everyone else in the tech industry is required to constantly learn new skills in order to remain relevant; why should Flash developers get a pass on this?
It seems the market agrees with Steve Jobs.
Funny that on the web Google has this “fast, simple and closed” strategy(*) and they won. On mobile they are all open, slow and low quality.
Apple has good UX on mobile and bad web service.
I totally support Google’s Open Platform vision, but on the long run I don’t want to tinker with my tools. I want productivity.
BTW, since I got my Android I’m a huge iPhone fan again.
(*) Google on web: no ranking algorithm published, no ad selection rules, the native code client is just for Google, even the Google open source code is just read only.
Bah. What has Steve Jobs done that’s great?
Woz i done your mum last night, if that counts.
I own both your arses now bend over and receive the goodness, like both your mothers did before you.
The views expressed here are my personal views, not those of the Free Software Foundation or the GNU Project.
Arrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU freedom GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU freedom GNU GNU GNU GNU freedom GNU GNU GNU GNU GNU Arrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Freedom FREEDOM Freedom FREEDOM Freedom FREEDOM Freedom FREEDOM.
Checkout my source code bitches.
Steve it is Linus (pronunciation: [ˈliːnɵs ˈtuːrvalds] remember that shit.
Ssssh guys, everyone quiet! Theo de Raadt is here, and if he hears us, he’ll call us slackers and bleach our source code!
i think, the real dissappointment came when people hoped that apple would use it’s position of power (read market share) for good. for the sake of technological advancement, and not just for preserving apple’s own vision of a user experience.
i guess jobs’ ending of the last email is supposed to somehow mean – that unless i am doing something to impose my will in some way, shape, or form on some other observer, i am doing nothing… arrogant, bullish, and straight pompus. nothing but money talking here… sad
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-05/15/c_13295848.htm
http://www.rdmag.com/News/FeedsAP/2010/05/manufacturing-foxconn-defends-labor-practices-after-8th-suicide/
http://www.chinacsr.com/en/2009/07/17/5713-apple-admits-its-chinese-oems-bad-labor-practices/
Say hello to my little $ucking distro.
Steve just remember apple is no more that a $500 logo so shut it slag.
Woz arrrrrahhhhhhhhhhh Steve tapped ya mum.
Linus it is (pronunciation: [ˈSTEVE 'BALLMER]
Richard aka beardy man, you still scare me.
Mark wheres your shuttle gone, wheres your shuttle gone..
Steve, you are right about Apple’s right to do what ever you choose.
The rise in popularity of the App store and the iPhone and iPad is because its the best thing around. That fact, will change and us users will do to Apple what we users did to AT&T the first chance we had at real choice that was comparable.
We have choices right now and because you and your colleagues did such a fantastic job at engineering something truly special and remarkable, we buy. Be forewarned though, you are removing freedoms that we users enjoy, like being able to choose what media and applications we want, without any one entity controlling it beyond our control.
Enjoy your time in the sun, when you competitors catch up we’ll leave Apple to the same fate it designed in the 1980′s, clearly the better option but to narrow minded to remain in the leadership positon for long, because you try to force the world to adapt to your vision of things similar to the fanatics of history.
We your customers and users don’t have it wrong, you do! All the complaints did not start till you crossed the line, and we will in the manner you prescribe push you back over that line, by refusing to buy and develop your product. But not yet, your is still ahead of your competition by a long ways. For your sake, you better hope they don’t gain a spark of discipline and creativity, for if and when they do, history will repeat itself.
This statement is not a warning, you are too brilliant to learn from the thousands who have spoken up to help you get it or from the millions like me who have remained silent and are waiting for the moment to show power of our purchasing power. You have been greatly rewarded by your customers and developers who have in some cases been anxiously interested to develop for using your tools and other times been force to based on lack of options. Thinking this means that your and only your interests should be considered is when you make an eventually costly mistake. I say this as your customer for the last 20 years, one who is sad to see that the success I have yearned to see for the Apple platform has turn your genius and creativity into your weakness.
After a long and great experience turning everyone who’d listen onto Apple’s great products and doing so proudly, I will now was as you self destruct, seemingly because you finally got the rewards and blessings that your brilliance and creative and discipline have always deserved.
Hopefully the next people to get things right can stay in power for generations by learning from your downfall, who know maybe it will be you who decides to learn the lesson and keep the Apple franchise growing and dominant for generations to come. That decision is all yours.
So long.
Steve,
In ’84 you had the best thing around with the new Macintosh. And you controlled access to it, just like you’re doing today. And pretty soon the rest of the market caught up and passed you up. It didn’t matter that technically, Macintosh was still the best solution… it was also the most expensive solution, and closed architecture. By the time Mac II opened up the architecture, it was too late.
Adobe was part of the reason Mac had the best solution.
But eventually PC’s had most of the same offerings that had been on the Mac, for hundreds of dollars less, and on machines that people could mix and match and tinker with.
Apple (under you, Jobs) is wonderful at bringing greatness to the market. But that control issue is stifling.
I have $1 on the table that says a year from now, iPad will NOT be the #1 portable internet pad-style device on the market. I suspect that will be a Chrome O/S device – complete with Adobe Flash Reader.
Gentlemen,
Steve is not being overly controlling… You are all looking at his “blocking” of Flash as a closed-minded policy. Consider this: Do Active-X controls run on the iPhone (or Android)? No — they never have, and this is for technical AND business reasons. It would be fairly easy to support them — just have WINE as part of OS X. The reason Apple doesn’t do this is because they would be letting the fox into the henhouse and adding unnecessary bloat to a mobile device. Everyone seems to get this, which is why you don’t hear complaints from all of the Java and Silverlight people about not being able to code for iPhones.
To another point: Ask yourselves — What is Adobe’s business model? They make NO money on the Flash plugin. It’s free. They make their money on tools. If I’m the Adobe CEO, I would strive to have every app in the world written in Flash. Now who is close-minded? And by the way, Adobe could solve this VERY easily by making their tools output in HTML5, etc. Why don’t they want to do this? Because they feel that HTML5 might be slow to adopt features that they already have. Oh wait — now the shoe is on the other foot! Adobe realizes that the innovation of their platform would be stifled by any lack of features in HTML5. So why don’t they have their tools output Objective-C code which could then be compiled by Apple’s tools? My understanding of section 3.3.1 is that this is allowed.
Developer tools are the gateway to a platform. Microsoft knows this — which is why they have some of the most mature tools around. When Microsoft adds a feature to their operating system, why do you as developers feel comfortable waiting for Flash, Java, etc to create an interface to that new feature? If I were a software company, I would embrace a platform and strive to be the best on it — use every new feature to its fullest extent. Guys, this is what you get paid to do — innovate, using whatever tools are necessary! It’s about the end user experience. This is what makes an app sell.
So what Steve is gambling on, and it’s a bold yet well-considered move, is that the iPhone/iPad/iPod platform (hardware + OS) will always be slightly ahead of competitors. And the developers who agree will retrain themselves to take advantage of the platform. Development tool vendors will do the same. If Apple were to release a killer hardware feature on the iPhone (which is their business model to do so!), how long would it take for Flash to incorporate it into not only their player but also their development tools? Would they wait until Android implemented it too before doing the release? This harms Apple, it harms developers, and it harms consumers.
Flash has a cross-platform, least-common-denominator approach to computing. This is a thing of the past!
You might be saying to yourselves that Microsoft never blocked anything — Flash, Java, RealPlayer, etc. Well, they have a different business model. They want people to consider Windows as the defacto OS platform, and they want to support an ecosystem of ISVs that fill in all the gaps. It’s a very well-conceived plan, and it only works because they have a near monopoly on the desktop. If they did not, then their business model would not work. Imagine if you will a world where Linux itself was not free AND they charged for the development tools AND those were the only tools you can use to develop for the platform (as is DevStudio). As you can see, Linux’s lack of market share would make this an untenable business model.
Why do you think they charge money for their development tools? Eclipse, XCode, and dozens of others are free of charge (yes, I know there is a free version of DevStudio but it is missing some key features). They charge money because they CAN. Adobe charges money because they CAN. If Apple were to charge money for XCode, it would kill the platform. Think about this anytime you are bashing Apple for the high perceived cost of their computers relative to humdrum PCs — you’re getting software that was developed by companies that got the tools for free, and this means you will get better software.
Flash developers, you are right to be up in arms over the omission of Flash as part of the iPhone OS. But you’re directing your anger at the wrong party. First, I understand that you are loathe to have to learn a new toolset (which you feel is inferior to Flash) to get your apps out there. Years of experience that you have will help to bridge that gap! You are good developers and you will find a way. You should instead be asking yourselves, why are there no 3rd-party Flash development tools that compare to Adobe’s?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash#Third-party_tools
Why is the .SWF format not entirely open?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.swf#Licensing
Adobe has great tools that create compelling apps — there’s no denying that.
Microsoft has great tools that create compelling apps — there’s no deny that.
And Apple has great tools too. Closed systems are a thing of the past (remember when Microsoft had “hidden” APIs that their apps used?). By being forced to expose the hidden APIs, it removed the need for cross-platform emulation/library layers. Yes, it’s more work for you, but c’mon, you’re good developers, the best at what you do. You will find a way.
Ha ha. Jobs can’t handle a real argument and trys to change the argument in some new direction. His final response attacks and belittles the Tate….typical of ego manic tyrants. Jobs….it will be a great day when you finally die….hope it will be soon!
I heard a rumor that AppHole has patents on “How To Be A DoucheBag” and “How To Turn Your Customers Into DoucheBags”.
If the thread is* legit, Steve’s an aging, out-of-touch dbag on the topic of porn — scientific examination of the subject has found (repeatedly) that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down:
Porn: Good for us? – The Scientist – Magazine of the Life Sciences
http://bit.ly/bOXztD
Oh please. Get a pass? I’m developing native apps, flash and html5. Get a pass? I’ll give you a pass, in the form of a smack in the brain, to get your head on right. Adobe has cooperated fully with Apple. Steve jobs personal values should not be attached to “his” company values. I’m really getting sick of “you people” saying that Flash is dead blah blah blah. I had a huge proposal for a client written based on Flash. Then the iPad comes with this huge argument. Client goes with cheap web developer in India because Steve Jobs can’t be bothered [or is bothered!?] to have Flash support. Funny, run Flash, then make the same thing in JavaScript and see what uses more juice.
Oh sorry, I forgot. Let’s talk about “Open Standards”. He says oh HTML5, Canvas, it’s all “Open”. He wants to close out web apps because of his iTunes store. Without web apps [let's be fucking serious for just one second ok, cool with you? - a REAL web app with interactivity not made in Flash, sure ok, stop playing dungeons and dragons in your moms basement] people need the store. People are FORCED to make apps. Are they supposed to sit back and take it?
F both these guys.
God those gawker media/gizmodo idiots are embarrassing douchebags.
that other guy is just butthurt, cased closed
Let see we have drunken profanity filled diatribe. Steve makes his point in the face of hostility. Last I heard their was no mandate to buy or develop for the IPHONE/IPAD.
People and Companies may choice to do what they like. If the market goes to other platforms and the applications are more compelling on another platform.
Apple seeks to build an entire user environment. This is the combination of tools, hardware and software with the idea of creating a total user experience.
Has this worked in the past? Iphone sales are testament to that and that has been without FLASH.
The great wars have always been settle by markets winers, losers utter defeats, and compromise. SYS V vs BSD. Banyan Vines vs Novel, Atari ST vs Amiga. Xenix Vs SCO.
I don’t care as long as you coding in C